pga tour 2k23 clubhouse pass

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What Is The Clubhouse Pass In PGA Tour 2K23?

As you make your way through the  plethora of courses available in  PGA Tour 2K23 , you may notice that you’ll be leveling up not only your character but your Clubhouse Pass as well. But, if you’re unfamiliar with what this is, you may be confused why you can’t redeem some of the rewards that it’s told you that you’ve unlocked.

Let’s dive into the  Clubhouse Pass and find out what it is, and what you’ll need to be on the lookout for as you play through the  MyCareer mode and its bounty of other options. Here’s everything that you’ll need to know about the Clubhouse Pass in PGA Tour 2K23 , and if it’s worth your time and money to worry about.

Clubhouse Pass Explained in PGA Tour 2K23

If you’ve played just about any game in the past few years, the term  Battle Pass is something that may be burned into your brain. It looks like this has also made its way into your favorite golf game, but it’s not as aggressive as some of these other titles. When you hear 2K , the first thing that you may fear is that there is an overabundance of  microtransactions  in this game.

Thankfully, there are very few microtransactions in this title. Anything that you want to unlock, you’ll more than likely be able to unlock through general gameplay, so you won’t need to spend money on upgrading your player. However, if you’re looking to unlock some premium gear, you’ll need to invest in the  Clubhouse Pass .

As you play any form of golf included in this package, you’ll earn  XP for your character , and  XP towards your Clubhouse Pass , which has a  Free Tier and a  Paid Tier . With the Free Tier, you’ll be able to get your hands on some basic rewards, with all of the better cosmetic options locked behind the Paid Tier.

Is The Clubhouse Pass Worth It?

If you’re a big fan of the sport, dropping around  $7.99 to unlock some premium cosmetics that you’ll be able to stunt on your opponents, as long as they’re on the same platform , may be worth it to you. Since it’s not as money hungry as some of the other titles in the 2k Sports franchise , this is a fairly reasonable ask. You’ll still be able to earn  VC as you play through rounds, and purchase clothing, but you’ll have to check out the  Clubhouse Pass rewards to see if it’s worth your cash.

If you’re ready to hit the links, make sure that you’re checking into our  PGA Tour 2K23 Guide Section , where you’ll be able to find out  how to play Topgolf in the game , which  golfers are available to play as , and if you’ll be able to  use a Female Avatar in the MyCareer mode !

PGA Tour 2K23 will be available on October 14th on PlayStation 5, PlayStation 4, Xbox Series X|S, Xbox One, and PC.

PGA TOUR 2K23 now available worldwide, bringing players “More Golf. More Game.”

Featuring iconic cover athlete and Executive Director Tiger Woods, players everywhere can tee off with authentic playable pros, courses, gear and Topgolf Mode

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“As we launch this next evolution of the franchise, there’s been no better partner to work with for PGA TOUR 2K23 than our legendary cover athlete Tiger Woods,” said Alfie Brody, Vice President of Global Marketing Strategy at 2K. “Throughout his career, Tiger has changed the culture of golf in terms of representation, fashion, prestige and attitude. Those are all qualities espoused by PGA TOUR 2K23 , and the franchise as a whole.”

“We’re very thankful for the supportive and passionate PGA TOUR 2K community,” said Josh Muise, Creative Director for HB Studios. “Their love of the game, feedback and hard work put into our Course Designer have really helped shape PGA TOUR 2K23 for the better and we’re proud to share the game with them today and for years to come.”

PGA TOUR 2K23 features several new additions and improvements sure to delight franchise veterans, dedicated PGA TOUR fans and casual golfers alike:

• Control the Pros – Woods leads a roster of more than 14 male and female playable pros at launch*, including Justin Thomas, Xander Schauffele, Lexi Thompson, Tony Finau, Lydia Ko, Collin Morikawa, Will Zalatoris, Brooke Henderson, Jon Rahm, Justin Rose, Rickie Fowler, and more. Players can step into the tee box as one of the pros in Exhibition, multiplayer and Divot Derby play, or go head-to-head with them in PGA TOUR MyCAREER mode. In addition to the pros, the broadcast-style presentation and commentary team also return, with the addition of English golf pro and broadcaster Henni Koyack.
• Earn PGA TOUR Pro Status – A spot atop the leaderboard awaits amateurs and pros alike in MyCAREER. Players can create a custom MyPLAYER, start out in Q-School, earn a spot on the Korn Ferry Tour and work their way up to PGA TOUR pro status, taking on the roster of pros on some of the most challenging and popular courses in pursuit of FedExCup glory. There’s also the option to skip right to PGA TOUR pro status.
• Celebrity Shot! – NBA icons and avid golf aficionados Michael Jordan and Steph Curry are available at launch to bring their skills from the hardwood to the fairway. Jordan is available as part of the Michael Jordan Bonus Pack, while Curry is available as free bonus content for all players on all platforms**.
• Tee Off with Topgolf Mode – The introduction of Topgolf Mode offers a unique single or multiplayer party experience emulating the popular golf entertainment phenomenon, where players can aim for targets and try to earn the highest score.
• Play Your Way – MyPLAYER customization is deeper than ever, with new player archetypes and skill trees. Players choose the style that works best for them, from a long-driving power hitter to a short game expert. Custom club fitting allows a further degree of personalization, allowing for unique but balanced combinations of club attributes. New optional, consumable golf balls offer a boost to certain attributes but are balanced to incur a penalty in others, while players can also opt to use an unlimited number of default balls without unique attributes. In addition to the returning analog stick swing, a three-click swing option is also available for an added level of customization so players can play the way they like.
• Swing With Swag – MyPLAYER personalization returns, and players can equip their MyPLAYERS just like Tiger with Nike Golf, TaylorMade and Bridgestone Golf apparel and gear. Even more apparel options are available from licensed brands, including adidas, Callaway Golf, FootJoy, Malbon Golf, Nike Golf, PUMA, Titleist, TravisMathew and more***. Clubs and balls from brands including Bridgestone Golf, Callaway Golf, COBRA, Mizuno, Odyssey Golf, PING, Scotty Cameron, TaylorMade, Titleist and Wilson are available to deck out players’ golf bags.
• Enjoy True-to-Life Courses or Test Your Creativity – Players can experience 20 licensed courses at launch. New additions include the South Course of Wilmington Country Club, The Renaissance Club, St. George’s Golf and Country Club and more. Pebble Beach Golf Club, Spyglass Hill, Torrey Pines North and South Courses, and more will be available as free bonus content after launch on all platforms. The industry-leading Course Designer also returns, offering players the opportunity to build their dream courses and share them with a global online community****.
• Embodying the Lifestyle – Culturally relevant partners including the largest and most influential digital sports, entertainment and lifestyle multimedia brand Barstool Sports, trick shot video megastars Dude Perfect, and premium lifestyle brand and gaming organization 100 Thieves will be represented in PGA TOUR 2K23 post launch bonus content.
• ‘Tis the Season – The new Seasons live services model ensures players can swing with swag for months to come, offering new gear and goals to achieve. Season 1 features apparel from Black Quail and Hugo Boss.
• See You in the Clubhouse – PGA TOUR 2K23 will also feature the return of Clubhouse Pass, including new gear and apparel rewards from Malbon and TaylorMade. Clubhouse Pass will be available in three tiers: Clubhouse Pass (free), which allows players to unlock free rewards at certain intervals, Clubhouse Pass Premium ($9.99/season), which allows players to earn rewards for every level, and Clubhouse Pass Premium Plus ($19.99/season), which allows players to skip the first 20 levels and receive those rewards.
• Train for the TOUR – Training mode offers multiple ways to develop skills, including swing calibration, lessons, chipping practice, a driving range and a putting green. Tutorials throughout help rookies get into the game, while giving seasoned players reminders and opportunities to work on their skills.
• Have a Tee Party – Online multiplayer features also return for PGA TOUR 2K23 ***** . Online Societies encourage players to compete with friends for custom tournaments and full seasons, with unique rules and entry stipulations.

“The PGA TOUR is excited for the launch of PGA TOUR 2K23 , featuring Tiger Woods, Steph Curry, Michael Jordan and many of the top players on the PGA TOUR,” said Len Brown, PGA TOUR Chief Legal Officer and Executive Vice President, Licensing. “We’re delighted that fans playing the game will be able to experience the PGA TOUR season from our players’ perspective and ultimately compete for the FedExCup.”

PGA TOUR 2K23 is available in multiple editions, each with unique cover art depicting painted portraits of Tiger Woods:

PGA TOUR 2K23 Standard Edition :

• Physical and digital versions for PS5, PS4, Xbox Series X|S and Xbox One consoles, as well as the digital-only version for PC, include the base game;
• Players who purchase the Standard Edition of the game for PS5 (digital version only) or Xbox Series X|S (physical or digital version) consoles which includes cross-generation dual entitlement will also receive the Golden Club Pack for the game on PS4 or Xbox One, respectively ******.

PGA TOUR 2K23 Deluxe Edition :

• For PS5, PS4, Xbox Series X|S and Xbox One consoles, includes the base game with cross-generation dual-entitlement, as well as the Michael Jordan Bonus Pack , Golden Club Pack, and Deluxe Edition Bonus Pack ;
• The Golden Club Pack includes a Golden Putter, Golden Driver, and four Uncommon consumable golf ball sleeves;
• The Deluxe Edition Bonus Pack includes 1300 VC (Virtual Currency), a hockey stick putter, gold baseball cap, gold glove, and three Rare consumable golf ball sleeves;
• For PC, includes the base game, as well as the Michael Jordan Bonus Pack , Golden Club Pack, and Deluxe Edition Bonus Pack .

PGA TOUR 2K23 Tiger Woods Edition (available in digital format only):

• Includes all the contents of the Standard and Deluxe Edition for the purchased platform;
• Includes the Tiger Woods Edition Bonus Pack – which includes a Tiger Woods TaylorMade wedge set, Nike TW Golf tee shirt, and three Epic consumable golf ball sleeves – plus the Tiger Woods Signature Sunday Pack , which includes a red polo, black pants, black hat, Nike TW Golf shoes, Nike TW Golf belt, and Bridgestone Golf TOUR B XS, Tiger Edition Golf Ball.

PGA TOUR 2K23 is rated E for Everyone by the ESRB. For more information on PGA TOUR 2K23 and 2K, visit https://pgatour.2k.com/2k23/ , become a fan on Facebook , follow the game on Twitter and Instagram using the hashtag #PGATOUR2K23 or subscribe on YouTube .

*Additional pros and courses will be added as free post-launch bonus content and be available to all players. **Michael Jordan is only available at launch as part of the Michael Jordan Bonus Pack, which is included with PGA TOUR 2K23 Deluxe Edition and PGA TOUR 2K23 Tiger Woods Edition (digital only). Steph Curry is available to all players on all platforms as a free download. PGA TOUR 2K23 required to play content. Terms apply. ***Some cosmetic items and consumables may require unlocking with virtual currency (earned or paid) or via gameplay. ****Online Account (13+) required to access online features. See www.take2games.com/legal and www.take2games.com/privacy for additional details. *****Multiplayer modes can only be played with the same console or across generations within the same console family (PS4 to PS5; Xbox One to Xbox Series X|S). ******Available for PlayStation and Xbox consoles on the same account within the same console family (PS4 to PS5; Xbox One to Xbox Series X|S). PS4 (Physical): PS4 disc and PS5 console with disc drive required to play PS5 version.

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PGA Tour 2K23 Season 2 - Clubhouse Pass rewards, courses & more

There will be another 50 levels to work through this season

Published: Jan 04, 2023, 10:58 am Updated: Jan 11, 2023, 4:32 pm

Season 2 is upon us in PGA Tour 2K23 , meaning that there are brand-new rewards to unlock with the Clubhouse Pass.

The new Clubhouse Pass has three tiers to it just like in Season 1, and each tier offers more rewards than the last.

Table of Contents

New courses, what is the clubhouse pass, clubhouse pass season 2rewards.

Find out what you can unlock during Season 2 below, and which Clubhouse Pass suits you best.

Two new courses are coming to the game in PGA Tour 2K23 Season 2.

The number one ranked public golf course in the USA, Pebble Beach, will be available for players to enjoy.

Along with Pebble Beach, Tiger Woods' designed Payne's Valley Golf Course will also be introduced to the game.

Throughout the cycle of PGA Tour 2K23, each season of the Clubhouse Pass will last between 10-12 weeks.

Just by playing the game, you will earn XP, progressing through the levels and unlocking rewards along the way.

As mentioned above, there are three tiers to the Clubhouse Pass, and they are as follows:

Standard Clubhouse Pass (free)

The Standard Clubhouse Pass is the basic pass available to all players and offers 10 items to unlock per season.

Clubhouse Pass Premium (£8.99/$9.99)

All 50 Premium items are available with the Clubhouse Pass Premium, as well as the 10 on offer in the Standard Pass. 60 items to unlock in total.

Clubhouse Pass Premium Plus (£17.99/$19.99)

All the perks of the Premium Pass, but with the added bonus of instantly unlocking the next 20 items from your current XP rank.

All the Season 2 rewards are available to unlock until Friday, 24 March , with 60 items in total.

This season's rewards include Under Armour and Callaway clothing at every tier!

It's not just attire you can unlock though, with the Callaway Great Big Bertha Driver available to redeem as a Tier 1 Reward for Premium and Premium Plus holders.

The full list of rewards can be found in the MyPlayer menu in-game.

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PGA Tour 2K23 Clubhouse Pass Season 7 Available Today

PGA Tour 2K23 Clubhouse Pass Season 7 is available today featuring plenty of swag and events. Free rewards from the Season 7 Clubhouse Pass include equipment from Malbon, TaylorMade, Footjoy and Cobra, and Premium rewards feature gear from all these brands plus Under Armour, Callaway, PUMA, Titleist and Bogey Boys.

Level up the Season ladder and earn golf balls, shoes, bucket hats, irons, polo shirts, gloves and more. Players that successfully make 20 shots from beyond 24 feet before January 21 will be rewarded with 250 VC, three Epic Magnet Ball sleeves and a pair of star-shaped sunglasses.

Season 7 kicks off on Friday ⛳ Hit the greens and earn the best of Clubhouses past rewards from 9 different brands, with Clubhouse Premium and Premium Plus Pass! Play in-game this Friday! Read the full report now: https://t.co/AYgXxNS7qc pic.twitter.com/IixDbJ8d9U — #PGATOUR2K23 (@PGATOUR2K) January 10, 2024

Level up the Season ladder and earn golf balls, shoes, bucket hats, clubs, shirts, and more. With Premium rewards, you can assemble your outfit from head to toe, starting with a staple of any golf ensemble, the Level 1 Script Rope Malbon Cap. Next, pair the Level 2 Under Armour Playoff 2.0 Polo with the Level 20 Bogey Boys Cheetah Green Vest to show off your incredible personality and impeccable taste in colorful attire. Complete the loud look with performance lightweight shorts, Level 16 PUMA Pride Crew Socks, and Level 22 PUMA Ignite Articulate shoes. When it comes to the golf bag, keep progressing to earn the Level 26 Titleist TSR3 Wood, Level 30 Callaway Great Big Bertha Irons, and Level 48 TaylorMade MyStealth Plus Driver.

For more details on PGA Tour 2K23 Clubhouse Pass Season 7, check out the Clubhouse Report .

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PGA Tour 2K23’s Clubhouse Pass Season 4 is fully detailed

It’s been a huge week in the world of golf, with the bombshell news that the PGA Tour, LIV Golf and DP World Tour have agreed to a merger. Did anyone see that coming? But virtually it’s just as big, as 2K fully detail what is on offer in PGA Tour 2K23’s Clubhouse Pass Season 4. 

PGA Tour 2K23 launched on Xbox, PlayStation and PC back in October 2022, beating EA to the stick by getting in a round early. We were quite impressed too, dropping a 3.5/5 review score on PGA Tour 2K23 , only concerned that when EA went all in, this one would come off second best. 

Those concerns were real too and when we pitted EA SPORTS PGA TOUR up against PGA Tour 2K23 , there was only the one winner. 

When and what is coming in Clubhouse Pass Season 4?

But 2K aren’t sitting back and holing bogeys; they are continuing to keep their golf game fresh. That’s the case today as they detail the Clubhouse Pass Season 4 for PGA Tour 2K23. 

As you would expect to hear, an all-new rewards ladder tees off from Friday June 9th 2023, allowing players the chance to get topping the leaderboards. They’ll be able to do so through daily and weekly challenges, as well as a special Topgolf event. 

Clubhouse Pass Season 4 will run for 10 weeks, delivering content and equipment from the likes of Titleist and FootJoy, including Pro V1 balls, apparel, and more.

And then from June 26th, PGA Tour 2K23’s Topgolf will be the host of the “Come Play Around” event, where players will participate in a cumulative 50,000 rounds and team up by adding to a collective score. This will run for two weeks, as the entire PGA TOUR 2K23 community will play to earn in-game rewards and a real-life Topgolf reward by combining scores for an overall total.

Nelly Korda stars

Need more? In addition to the excitement of Clubhouse Pass Season 4, new playable pro and Olympic gold medalist Nelly Korda steps into the tee box in PGA TOUR 2K23 on July 7th. The Florida native and multi-time champion joins the likes of Tiger Woods, Matthew Fitzpatrick, Jon Rahm, Lydia Ko, Tony Finau, Brooke Henderson and Xander Schaeffele, as well as celebrity guests including Michael Jordan, Stephen Curry and John Cena on the in-game roster.

As Korda is set to compete at Pebble Beach Golf Links between July 7th-9th, players can step into her shoes and take on a virtual Pebble Beach in PGA TOUR 2K23.  

2K have more for you though and if you want to wear some new gear, you’ll be well sorted with the 2K Red Jacket. Won and worn during a virtual round with friends in PGA TOUR 2K23, between June 15th-18th, players can compete in the new Red Jacket Society event on the Pinehurst No. 2 course to earn the coveted garment and online bragging rights.

Will you be getting involved in Clubhouse Pass Season 4 with PGA Tour 2K23? Let us know down in the comments. 

And if you don’t yet own a copy of the game, you’ll find PGA Tour 2K23 in Standard, Deluxe and Tiger Woods editions on Xbox, PlayStation and PC. 

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From Russia with glove

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We talk to two PGA Members who have ventured beyond the 'Iron Curtain' to develop their careers in Russia, where a growing volume of clubs are catering for a small, but ever-increasing number of citizens that have taken up the game in recent years.

Matthew Marsh PGA Advanced Professional Golf Project Director at Shishkino Country Club

What attracted you to working in Russia? It certainly was not the two-metre snow drifts, -30c winter windchill temperatures in Moscow, or the six minutes of sunshine we experienced during the whole month of December in 2016! On a serious note, I always felt that greater opportunities for my career development were overseas. Eastern Europe and CIS countries are emerging golfing markets which can provide progressive opportunities. I was also attracted to experiencing and discovering new cultures and the personal development that working and living overseas provides.

How did you find out about your first job in Russia and your current role? My first overseas job – teaching professional at The Don Golf & Country Club – was advertised on the PGA website. I was lucky enough to be offered the job following a series of interviews with the then Director of Golf Christopher Snape. It was only a seasonal teaching role, but it was the platform from which my career in Russia has progressed. My current role as Project Director at Shishkino Country Club, a new golf development in the South of Moscow, came about through my own network. This highlights how valuable building your network can be as a PGA Professional overseas and the importance of developing relationships. Without my seven years of experience working within Russian golf, this opportunity would never have presented itself.

What is the remit of your job? As Project Director at Shishkino, I am responsible for the development of the whole project, from the golf course to all vertical infrastructure such as the clubhouse and real estate. It's an expansive, but very exciting role. The project is currently in the conceptual phase, with construction planned to start in the spring of 2022. I have recently appointed our golf course design team, which includes an award-winning architect and one of the best agronomy consultancy companies in Europe. We have undertaken site analysis and are already reviewing initial zonification plans, ahead of creating a preliminary course routing and masterplan of the whole country club in the coming weeks. Parallel to this, in line with the design brief from the owner, I have identified and met with potential clubhouse design teams and architects.

How has the pandemic affected the Shishkino project? COVID 19 continues to challenge us as we move forward with the project. We have faced difficulties bringing foreign specialists into Russia due to travel and visa restrictions, and we will also face challenges with production and delivery times of materials for the construction of the golf course. Bizarrely, it was actually during the first lockdown in Moscow, back in April 2020, that the idea of creating a new golf and country club was cfirst onceived while I was having a game of golf with the owner on his indoor simulator.

How would you rate the current strength of Russian Golf? Golf in Russia is a growing sport. The data provided by the Russian Golf Association on participation from 2020 suggest that there are 130,000 people actively participating in some form of golf. Most of this participation comes from the 100,000 kids in schools receiving some form of coaching and 20,000 having tried the game in some form of corporate events at golf clubs, driving ranges or indoor facilities. Officially there are only 2,641 golfers registered with handicaps, of which 83% are adults and 17% are junior golfers. The gender split is 70% men and 30% women. In 2020, there were over 585 new registered golfers with handicaps. It does feel like that there has been a golf boom due to Covid-19 in Moscow and I expect those figures to increase more significantly over the next few years. During my seven years in Russia there has been a 167% increase in registered golfers. It's from a low base, but it's a steady upward trend. From an elite level perspective, the highest ranked amateur is Nataliya Guseva, 77th in the women's world amateur rankings, while Nina Pegova is currently the highest ranked professional Russian golfer, currently ranked 458th due to her recent success on the LET Access Tour.

How easy was it for you to settle in Russia? And what is day to day life like outside of work for you? Maybe my view is slightly biased after over seven years here, but only a few weeks ago I celebrated my second wedding anniversary, having married a Russian, so I suppose I found it reasonably easy to settle. I feel fortunate to work in one of the best cities in the world. Moscow is a historical city with great culture and a thriving nightlife. It has become much easier for foreigners to get around in Moscow since I came. The city was transformed for the 2018 FIFA World Cup, with almost all signage now in English and Russian. Unfortunately, I haven’t had as much time to travel within the country as I would like, but a trip to see the Northern Lights over the Barents Sea is definitely on my bucket list for this coming winter!

What advice would you give to PGA Members who may be interested in working in Russia? You do not need to think twice, take the opportunity! Be open minded and ready to adapt. Unfortunately, there are not as many overseas PGA Professionals left in Moscow due to the current economic situation. But like other emerging golf markets in Eastern Europe, golf is a luxury industry which can provide great opportunities for career development. Once you are here, I’d recommend that you spend time building relationships with your colleagues, as you will no doubt need them along way to help you get around and solve any translation issues. And lastly, don’t be put off by what you hear about Russia on the mainstream news channels. Come with an open mind and develop your own opinion.

Peter Holland Director of Golf, PGA National Zavidovo

What attracted you to working in Russia? Russia was never on my radar for work until a family friend mentioned the opportunities out there. I heard about the job at Agalarov Golf Club via contacts at Troon Golf. I was recruited to the position at Zavidovo after the club's general director made contact with me directly.

What facilities are on offer at Zavidovo? As a full-scale leisure resort, Zavidovo has a diverse range of facilities. The golf course, which opened in 2012, was built by European Golf Design and blends heathland and links style features, with a few water hazards to add to the challenge. Each hole has its own unique character and strategic element, while five sets of tees enable a wide range of abilities to enjoy the 7,400-yard course. Other leisure activities include fishing, biking, hiking trails, kids camp, while there are four on-site hotels. The local rivers link up with Russia's longest river, The Volga, so we also offer plenty of water sports.

How many members does the golf club have and what does an annual membership fee cost? The last couple of years has witnessed a surge in membership and we are approaching 200. This year's annual membership fee is around £1,700, with a guest green fee of up to £140.

What are the benefits of being a PGA National venue? Creating partnerships with PGA national clubs around Europe.

What does a typical working day involve? Primarily the creation and generation of ideas to enhance golfers' experiences on and off the course, sharing and developing these ideas with colleagues from both the general management and golf operations. Overseeing and organising all golf tuition, as well as giving individual and group lessons.

What are the best and the most challenging parts about working in Russia? The golf season is comparatively short, and generally operates through the summer months, so April to October is an intensely busy period with a packed calendar of events, which often pushes the limits when it comes to tournament organisation.

How would you rate the current strength of the golf industry in Russia? Although the golf industry in Russia is small, the country has witnessed a significant upsurge in domestic play in recent years, which has been accelerated even further due to the recent restrictions to travel caused by the pandemic. Although the current number of registered golfers is small – around 5,000 members – there is a very strong potential to grow as more courses open. While it used to be a game for Russia's elite, more courses with more affordable membership rates and green fees are opening all the time, which has enabled people more people to be able to afford take up the game.

How easy has it been to settle into the local community? Very easy. The Russians are welcoming and generous by nature. There are also quite a few expatriates here and plenty of social activities within the local community. The most challenging part about living here is the language – let's just say it's a work in progress!

What advice would you pass on to other PGA Members who may be interested in working abroad in general, and Russia specifically? If you have a desire to work abroad, get out there, make contacts and show a positive attitude. PGA pros, like all other professional people, will benefit by broadening their horizons through diversification and by learning about all elements of the industry, including people management, communication skills, food & beverage, golf operations, agronomy and finance.

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To Russia with Love: The story behind Russia’s first 18-hole course is stranger than fiction

Two decades in the making, Moscow Country Club, Russia’s first 18-hole golf course, debuted on the world stage 25 years ago this month. And the story of its creation — from Gorbachev and glasnost and swinging cops to grounded cosmonauts and mushrooms and vodka — is stranger than fiction.

The 1960s began with Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev banging his shoe — definitely not a FootJoy — on a desk at the United Nations. A couple of years later came the Cuban Missile Crisis, which was as close to a nuclear holocaust as the world had come before or since. The Cold War continued in full freeze until the end of the decade, when U.S. President Richard Nixon, his Secretary of State, Henry Kissinger, and Khrushchev’s successor, Leonid Brezhnev, tried to thaw things out.

Détente between the Soviets and the U.S. took on many forms. Perhaps the most surprising was plans for an American-designed 18-hole golf course on the outskirts of Moscow, the first in all of the Soviet Union. By the time it was done, perestroika and glasnost had cleared the way for playing golf — and the Soviet Union had dissolved. Here, some of the key players on one of the unlikeliest golf course projects ever share their recollections.

1. The Tsars Align / Fall 1973

Robert Trent “Bobby” Jones Jr., celebrated course architect and son of legendary course designer Robert Trent Jones Sr.: [American business tycoon] Armand Hammer, who was chairman of Occidental Petroleum, had a longstanding relationship with the Soviet Union’s oligarchs. Having gone over there at the beginning of what was later called détente, with Secretary of State Kissinger’s delegation, Dr. Hammer made a statement that if the Soviets were going to open up their closed society to Western and Japanese business, they needed two things: a golf course and a Cadillac. I read that in the New York Times . So I called Occidental’s office and identified myself to a manager of some kind. I’m waiting on hold, and suddenly I heard, “Armand Hammer here.” I was actually speaking to the chairman!

I said, “Do you want to do a golf course, and can we help you?” He said, “Why should I take you?” I said, “Well, I’ve been to the Soviet Union. After I got out of Yale, I went on a tour.” He said, “That’s unique.” Then he said, “Shouldn’t we use Arnold Palmer?” I said, “My father’s much more famous about building golf courses. Arnold tends to play.” Dr. Hammer didn’t know much about golf. This was a Thursday. He said, “I can’t see you tomorrow — be here Monday morning.”

Meantime, he had a friend on the USGA Executive Committee named Bob Dwyer, who was a timber man. The Soviet Union had lots of timber, and he and Dr. Hammer were trying to harvest and sell Siberian timber together. Dwyer and my father met a few months later at a USGA meeting. He convinced my father, who was a little reluctant to go, that Dr. Hammer was very well connected in the USSR. The following June, we all flew in a private plane that Dr. Hammer had. Onboard was a Soviet in his military uniform, to make sure we didn’t deplane to do anything weird.

We met with the mayor of Moscow, Vladimir Promyslov, and the foreign minister in charge of properties, called UPDK, a man named Vladimir Kuznetsov. Kuznetsov had been posted as ambassador to Malaysia, where he learned to play golf and would play with the U.S. ambassador at the Royal Selangor Golf Club so they could have backchannels about the Vietnam War. He’d become hooked on golf. My dad and I went skinny-dipping in the Volga River after too much vodka. My dad didn’t drink much, and I drank too much that day. But over time we made friends with these people. We didn’t see it as a commercial opportunity. It was an adventure.

Over a five-year span, from 1974 to 1979, Jones Jr. and Sr. made several visits to Moscow to look at potential course sites.

Jones : Eventually, they chose the site, Nakhabino, about 45 minutes from Red Square, because it was in the woods and nobody would see what they were doing. They didn’t want anybody to know they were making a golf course. There was no golf in the Soviet Union. It was considered an English sport and symbolic of the enemy, meaning the English, who had invaded and held Murmansk during the revolution.

November 1979

Jones Jr. went with Kuznetsov to see the Olympic Stadium, where Moscow would be hosting the 1980 Summer Olympics.

Jones : I was walking with Mr. Kuznetsov, and it starts snowing. And because they had a SALT treaty that our Congress did not approve, I said, “How are things between our two countries?” He said, “They’re colder than these few snowflakes. And by December, they’ll be very cold.” I took that as a sort of metaphor. But what he was hinting at was the Soviets were about to enter Afghanistan.

The Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan in December 1979, which led to a freeze in cultural and sports exchanges. The Moscow Country Club project was mothballed for another six years, during which time Jones Sr. left the project. Then Mikhail Gorbachev came to power.

Sam Nunn , U.S. Senator from Georgia : The first time I met Bobby was in the ’80s. I was a guest out at Cypress Point. A friend of mine from Rand Corporation introduced us. It rained about 14 inches that Saturday and Sunday, so we only managed to play maybe nine holes. But I got to know Bobby that weekend.

He travelled all over the world and was involved in a lot of countries where the East-West issues were front and center. That was what I spent a lot of time on, so we stayed in touch. He kept me informed on observations he’d make about various countries. The common denominator was golf, but he had a very keen interest in, and understanding of, many of the issues that we were dealing with politically in that era — the Soviet Union as well as with other countries, such as the Philippines when [President Ferdinand] Marcos’s leadership was coming under great assault by his own people.

There was a huge amount of tension — anything about the capitalist world was condemned in the Soviet Union, and golf would be right there at the top echelon of those types of symbolic issues. The chances of building a golf course in the land of the adversary, let alone the land where capitalism is damned, was very unlikely. Still, I took it seriously, because I felt the Soviet Union was going to have to change, if nothing else, for economic and investment purposes. And as I got to know Bobby, I came to realize that he doesn’t understand the word “impossible,” either in Russian or English.

Jones : George Shultz was a personal friend of mine, a member at San Francisco Golf Club, as I am. We played golf occasionally. When he became Secretary of State under Reagan, in 1982, he knew about the Moscow golf project and how it had been put on the back burner. In late 1986, he told me, “Bobby, get ready. That project may have some importance.”

January 1987

Jones is in Moscow, quietly negotiating terms of the golf course commission with the UPDK.

Jones : One night, I was walking by myself. There was no danger, walking the streets in Moscow, because crime was punished severely. But you couldn’t find good food.

Craig Copetas , a Moscow-based journalist : It was about 1:00 in the morning, and I had gone down to Old Arbat Street because I needed to look into the window of an antiques shop there for a story I was working on. No one was in Moscow at 1:00 a.m. in those days; it was completely vacant. There’s one of these Moscow mists in the air, kind of a frozen fog. And out of this mist, from around the corner, comes this guy wearing a baseball hat. He comes up to me and says, in English, “Do you know where I can get something to eat?” I said, “This is Moscow. Are you a tourist? Are you lost?” He says, “No, I’m here building a golf course.”

Now, old Moscow hand that I am, having heard every conceivable farfetched tale you could imagine, my jaw dropped. I looked at him and I said, “And I thought I was crazy.” I didn’t believe him. This made absolutely no sense. But I was intrigued. I said to him, “Well, I happen to know an illegal place down the street that stays open quite late where we can get some khachapuri — it’s like a Georgian pizza.” We went there and spent the whole morning talking, and he explained to me the project’s history. I was in complete awe.

June 1, 1988

A deal to create Moscow Country Club was announced at a summit meeting in Moscow, with a two-year contract between Jones’s firm and the Soviet foreign ministry (via a “techno-export company”).

Jones : Our plans had been approved by [Minister of Foreign Affairs Eduard] Shevardnadze, and George Shultz actually did the final [U.S.] approval of the project. Their contract was promptly agreed to, but ours was not. In the contract I submitted, I put a plan in it that had a legend: tee, fairways, greens and bunkers. The guy reviewing it in the Commerce Department was not a golfer. He said, “Oh, I had to send it to the Defense Department. You have a thing of known military significance — bunkers.” That held it up.

Blake Stafford , Jones’s business lawyer : We had to do some redesign of the irrigation system, because there was a computer control to regulate the irrigation heads. They also said, “What are these bunkers?” I said, “They’re depressions in the ground you create to catch errant golf balls.” They said, “It sounds like something from a battlement of some kind.” I said, “Nope, it’s not for fighting wars, it’s for fighting golfers.”

2. Coming to America / November 1988

Jones invited a small group of Russians — among them, Deputy Foreign Minister Ivan Ivanovich Sergeyev and assorted Soviet engineers and architects — for a two-week U.S. tour to learn more about golf. The itinerary included a visit to USGA headquarters in Far Hills, N.J., and course tours in and around Washington, D.C., Chicago and California’s Monterey Peninsula.

Jones : When the Russians had a party, they had a party . Once you broke the ice with them, they were very warm. In Moscow, they took my son Trent to the circus. They took my wife and me to the Bolshoi Ballet. We tried to return the same hospitality when they came to see us in the States.

Bill Pollak , a friend of Jones, and a lawyer and sports agent : The Russians came to Washington a week before Thanksgiving. I asked them how familiar they were with the traditions of Thanksgiving, and it was very little. They wouldn’t still be here for the holiday, so my wife and I did a complete Thanksgiving dinner for them a few days early. It was wonderfully colorful and joyful. They combined our Thanksgiving traditions with Russian traditions — singing and drinking and just thoroughly enjoying eating turkey and all the trimmings. I’ve never seen Thanksgiving with more drinking festivities.

Jones : All but one of them had never been out of the Soviet Union. They were amazed. When they went to Spanish Bay, which had just opened, they said, “My gosh, these rooms are so big. Shouldn’t we invite some homeless people?” And those little vodka bottles in the minibar, they were all consumed. I said, “Listen, don’t use those little ones. That’s expensive. I’ll get the big one.”

We went to a football game, Cal versus Stanford, big game. The Russians said, “Oh, we’re going to be for the [Cal] Bears, like the Moscow bear.” I said, “I’m a Stanford guy. You can’t be for the Bears.” “No, we’re going to be for the Bears.” Then one guy kept saying, “I don’t know anything about this game, but I really like those dancing girls” — the cheerleaders. It was a very big deal, in terms of détente, and cultural and sport exchange at the highest levels.

Stafford : There were a lot of really, really fun times, and the Russians we dealt with were completely enjoyable people with very similar senses of humor.

3. Breaking Ground / 1988-1993

The course building began in the winter of 1988; Jones invited Antti Peltoniemi, a Finnish golf course contractor he’d worked with previously, to join the project the following year, in part because he could import a needed bulldozer.

Antti Peltoniemi : When we first started construction, we had mainly Finnish and other experienced foreign workers building the log houses, the clubhouse and the golf course. There were 22 nationalities represented on the workforce, including somebody from Ecuador, who was the farthest away. I think it’s pretty much the same in every country where you haven’t had golf courses. The local workers or contractors think that they’re just moving dirt, then you seed it, and that’s the golf course. But throughout the years, we were able to train and teach those Russian nationals to build and eventually maintain the course. We started cooperating very well. They were willing to learn and are quite quick to learn if you explain what you are doing. By the end, we had only a couple of supervisors from Finland.

Copetas : I vividly remember one evening, long before the course was completed, we were in my car, along with two American golf-course shapers. For some reason, Bobby had all these golf clubs on the floor in the back seat, and there were more in the trunk. We’re driving, and two Russian cop cars stop us. What the shapers knew about Russia is from, like, hiding under desks. They’re scared to death. They think they’re going to prison. They’re cursing, they’re yelling, they want to go to the Embassy. I’m trying to calm them down. Bobby, in his inimitable way, gets out of the car and starts talking to four Russian police officers in English, thinking they’re going to understand him. They’re looking at him like, “Who is this guy in the baseball hat?” One of the cops shines his flashlight in the car, and he sees these golf clubs. Of course, he’s never seen a golf club before in his life. They take these things out, they’re looking at them, they don’t know what the hell they are. And Bobby proceeds to give one of the cops a lesson in how to swing a golf club, in the middle of the night in Moscow.

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Peltoniemi : Because Star Wars [the Strategic Defense Initiative program] kind of ended during the Reagan time, one of the superintendents on the golf course was a cosmonaut. He was a guy who was supposed to go to space, but then because the program fell away, he came to work on the golf course. We trained him in Finland, and Bobby trained him in the United States. So that was interesting.

Jones : When we were clearing the forest, we came upon, literally, a bunker that you could see had been shoveled out, and the trees had grown up around it. I asked, “What’s this feature?” They said, “Oh, that’s where we stopped the Nazis, right there,” as they were marching toward Moscow. We left it as a symbol of turning swords into plowshares.

Challenging weather and financial problems posed significant hurdles, but it was political unrest that nearly did the project in.

Jones : We had nine holes that were just grown in when the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991 — and then nobody came to work, nobody. Antti got his Finnish guys, and I got one of our guys, and we maintained the course for them for about a year for nothing, just to keep it alive. We always felt that if the course ever stopped, the new manager would let it go back to nature.

Copetas : Bobby saw it as his patriotic duty to bring Nakhabino to completion. And he had a lot of friends in Russia, too. Because of this, he showed a patience that very few others ever did when dealing with the Russians… When Bobby came to Moscow — and I saw him on just about every trip — the officials at UPDK, who were dyed-in-the-wool Soviet apparatchiks, treated Bobby with a courtesy and respect and curiosity that I can honestly say I never saw with any other American there doing business.

Peltoniemi : Before you start seeding, there are small rocks or stones on the ground. You have to pick them up, so that when you start mowing and are cutting the grass the blades won’t get ruined. At the end of finishing the course, our boss, the site manager, went to talk with the colonel at a military base close by. About 100 Russian soldiers came over and walked each hole in a line, picking up all the small stones.

4. Open For Business / September 1993

A nine-hole tournament takes place in 1993. It’s exclusively for Russians, to ensure that the first champion is a native.

Copetas : The one thing that the Russians demanded from day one was that once the club opened, they wanted a Russian golf pro, of which there were none. So the Russians did some kind of hunt through the sports academy to find anyone who had any knowledge of golf whatsoever, and they found this kid and made him the golf pro. I asked him, “How did you get involved in golf in Russia, where there’s no golf?” He said that prior to the club opening, he had been on an exchange program in Florida. One morning, he woke up very early and decided to take a walk. He wanders into this beautiful park area. All of a sudden, he hears voices screaming at him very loudly. And he doesn’t understand English that well. He looks up in the air and sees this white sphere coming at him that hits him in the head and knocks him out. He took that as a sign from God that he should learn about golf. And thus was born the first Russian golf pro.

The inaugural Russian Open championship, a 54-hole event, takes place in September 1994. It features a mix of accomplished players and not-so-accomplished players.

Jones : Speeches were made. The local mayor, who knows nothing, gave a long-winded speech. Then Michael Bonallack, who had come from the R&A to help open the course, was invited to speak. He got up and said, “On behalf of the Royal and Ancient Golf Society that was founded in St. Andrews in 1754, we welcome all of the people of Russia to our sport,” and sat down. That’s it. I thought that was perfect. Then Deputy Foreign Minister Sergeyev got up and said, “Comrades, I am the trained engineer responsible for the public health of our country. Because of perestroika and glasnost, I can now speak openly. Our entire country is an environmental cesspool. But here, at Nakhabino, there is one garden growing. There is hope,” and sat down. Best speeches I ever heard.

Peltoniemi : My brother Mikko, whose handicap at that time was 20, was playing in the third flight. He ended up making a hole-in-one on the 16th hole. Flew a 5-iron straight into the hole. There were three Russian TV stations there because it was the first Russian Open, and they were interviewing him because his hole-in-one was the most fascinating stroke of the tournament. They asked my brother, “Have you been playing on the American tour?” He said, “Yes, twice” — because he had been with me in Florida, where we played together two times. They asked, “How did you do?” He said, “I won once,” because he beat me one of the two times. They think he is a winner on the PGA Tour! It was a very young golfing culture at that time.

We had a huge celebration in the evening, and everybody wanted to toast vodka with Mikko. He was carried to the hotel because he got so drunk. The next day, he was playing in another early flight, because his 102 was not that good a score. When he came to the same hole, No. 16, there was one TV crew that came to see. And he hit it to about two inches from the hole! The TV crew said, “You did quite well there.” My brother, fooling around a bit, said, “Well, the wind was kind of circulating, so it was hard to shoot.”

At the end of the day, after the tournament, they had a summary about the tournament on TV. They said, “Best score was by the American Steve Schroeder…but clearly the most astonishing and the most remarkable player was Mikko Peltoniemi, because now, another day, he almost made hole-in-one again, and nobody else got even close to the hole.”

Steve Schroeder , chief business officer, Robert Trent Jones II Design (currently CEO of Poppy Hills) : I’d played in two U.S. Opens, but I hadn’t played any serious competitive golf since my last Open in 1990. At Nakhabino, I had a good second round, something in the 60s, and I want to say I won by 4 or 5. The night before the last round, we experienced a major rain and played the golf course in conditions that I would describe as being along the lines of the San Francisco City Golf Championship — which is, it doesn’t matter how hard it rains or how wet it gets, you’re going to play on. We played that last nine holes in this downpour, and I’ll never forget, there’s a picture of the R&A’s Mike Bonallack hitting a bunker shot with his bucket hat on and his tongue hanging out. You just see water and sand going everywhere.

Jones : On one of the holes, there was a group of people picking mushrooms in the rough. Bonallack had to make a local rule on the spot that if your ball gets picked up by one of the mushroom hunters, you can drop without penalty.

The European PGA Tour granted the Russian Open winner a spot in the Sarazen World Open field for two years.

Schroeder : That was a really cool acknowledgement of the magnitude of the event, which subsequently became part of the European Challenge Tour. It was the lift in the wings for Russia being acknowledged in international golf. For me, I actually made the cut my second year in the World Open and got to play in a twosome with Fuzzy Zoeller on Saturday.

Jones : We got a golf club that was given to us by a metallurgist who had worked in the Soviet missile program. He had taken the titanium from an ICBM and replicated a Big Bertha and gave it to me. I later gave it to President Clinton. He asked me, “Bob, are you sure it’s not radioactive?” And I said, “I have no idea.”

5. Postscript

Nunn : I did go to the club once. It wasn’t during the early stages, and Bobby wasn’t there. I just had a chance to put my feet on the ground for maybe a half-hour. My thoughts were that things really are changing, because in previous eras in the Soviet Union, anyone sponsoring such a project would be in jeopardy not just of their work, but of paying a long-term visit to Siberia.

Jones : Doing Moscow Country Club enriched my life enormously. Was it a challenge? It challenged every aspect of my essence as a human being. You had to call a lot of audibles. You knew what the goal was, but how you got there was completely new.

I’ve been back a few times. In 2008, they invited Antti and me to come back. They planted a tree in honor of my father, who’d passed on, for his memory, and one in my name, honoring the family together. And they gave me a medal from the charitable organization for humanitarian service and the foreign ministry. It’s beautiful, emblazoned with a starburst and what looks like diamonds on it. I said to my host, “Is this real gold and diamonds?” He said, “How can you ask? Of course, of course.” Of course, it isn’t.

Still, it’s a big deal to them and to me, too. It’s like, “You’re helping the Russian people in some fashion.” It’s like a trophy of friendship. It’s on my mantle, and it’s very special.

The Moscow CC Today

The semiprivate club currently has more than 400 members. More than 14,000 rounds were played on the course in ’18. The club hosts a nine-hole members’ winter tournament using red balls. The 2018 VTB Russian Open (Senior) Golf Championship on the Staysure Tour (formerly the European Senior Tour) was contested on the course. It was the only international pro tournament in Russia last year. Stay-and-play packages are available, starting at 12,000 Russian rubles per person, which includes accommodation at a 5-star hotel. Go to mccgolf.ru and mcc-hotel.ru for more information.

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• Regent Seven Seas Cruises

Best of Moscow by high speed train

By shuguley , February 15, 2014 in Regent Seven Seas Cruises

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Sure would appreciate someone who has taken "Best of Moscow by high speed train" from St. Petersburg could please share their impressions of this shore excursion. From the description this sounds like a very long day.

Wondering how the 4 hour train trip was in terms of accommodations, etc. Also what time did you leave the ship and what time at night did you return? Were both legs of the trip on the high speed rail (I read that slower trains also travel the same tracks)?

My wife and I are considering this excursion. We thought that if we are making all the effort to go to Russia then how could we pass up going to Moscow, walking in Red Square, seeing St. Basil, etc.

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If you are considering this on the 2015 June Baltic cruise on Voyager; my suggestion is don't. There is so much to do in St. Petersburg and although a train is one of my favorite ways to travel the time would be far better spent in St. P.

Thanks for the advice. Yes, this would be on the Voyager during the 2015 season but not yet sure exactly which cruise.

We did the Moscow excursion "on a different luxury line", but from your brief description it sounds very much like the same trip, so I will operate on that assumption. It is a VERY long day! We left the ship at 5:30 AM and returned at 12:30 AM. The highspeed train trip is comfortable, and while they call it "Business Class" it does not compare well to the equivalent class on say Rail Europe. When we did it in 2011, we did have highspeed both ways, and the trip back seemed much longer as the adrenaline and excitement had worn off!:D

Moscow itself is not that terribly different from any other big city in the world, but this Cold War kid never thought he would ever stand in Red Square, never mind walk the grounds of The Kremlin, or tour The Kremlin Palace, or see (but not visit) Lenin's Tomb, or visit The Armoury. But he did, and he loved every minute of it! Yes, it is a long day, and you barely scratch a scratch on the surface, but it is worth it. There is a tremendous amount to see in St. Petersburg, but every Baltic cruise goes to St. Petersburg, so you can go back if you choose to. Not every cruiseline offers you the chance to see Moscow.

I have not personally done this tour, but our last time in St Petersburg, the private guide that we hired for a day was leading the regent tour to Moscow on the high speed train the next day. He said it was way better than the previous alternative, which was flying to Moscow and back. He said that you actually got to Moscow faster because you didn't have to deal with airline checkin etc. it did seem like a very long day to me, and there is so much to see and do in st. Petersburg that I didn't consider doing it.

countflorida

We toured to Moscow from St. Petersburg via the hi-speed SAPSAN train last September, from a Baltic cruise on the Oceania Marina. You need to have a two-night, three day port call in St. Petersburg to take this tour because the tour typically leaves the ship around 5:00 - 5:30 AM and doesn't return until after midnight the next day. We didn't take the ship's tour; we made private arrangements with TravelAllRussia for three days of touring, the first and third days in St. Petersburg and the second day the tour to Moscow by train. Our cost for the private tour for three days was about the same as what the ship charged for the excursion to Moscow alone. There are a number of private tour agencies that operate in St. Petersburg and offer the Moscow train tours; we would strongly recommend them over the ship's tours.

All three days had private guides with car and driver. The second day, the driver picked us up at the ship and took us to the train, but we were alone on the train, and met in Moscow by the guide on the station platform. After our tour and dinner, we were brought back to the train and after the return train trip met by the driver and taken back to the ship. Because you are alone on the train you must have your own Russian visas.

If this is your first visit to St. Petersburg, I would agree there is much more to see there. We found Moscow somewhat a disappointment, particularly Red Square. The Kremlin and the cathedral in Red Square were also worth seeing. But the best thing we saw was the Moscow subway! I worked for the Washington Metro system back in the 1980s as it grew from 40 to 80 miles and although I was in the computer area, I learned a lot about the challenges of running a subway system. We used the Moscow system to get across the city from where we had dinner to the train station, and I was amazed at the cleanliness', speed of operation, the short headways maintained, and the courtesy of everyone involved. A very impressive experience!

We had been to St. Petersburg before, and so had the time to take a day and go to Moscow. Also, I really like trains, and the SAPSAN is a German train set running on Russian rails. Seats are like first class domestic air, spacious but not too plush or comfortable, but with enough room. Not too much recline, and almost 8 hours on the train in two shots is a lot for an old man. They come through and sell drinks, candy, etc. but the sellers don't speak English and no one around us helped, so we had just poor coffee once coming, and brought stuff with us for the trip back. Not too much to see from the train either, particularly on the return when it is night the whole way.

If you decide to go, take a private tour and avoid the overly expensive ship's tour. I'm glad we did it, but wouldn't bother to repeat the tour; we've seen Moscow.

Thanks so much to all of you for the thorough and thought insight. Yhe information you have provided is most helpful.

countflorida: Your detailed post is very helpful. We are not quite ready for a Baltic cruise but should do so within a year. Time enough to do our pre travel research, bookings and visa gathering.:) Thank you!

Emperor Norton

Sure would appreciate someone who has taken "Best of Moscow by high speed train" from St. Petersburg could please share their impressions of this shore excursion. From the description this sounds like a very long day.   Wondering how the 4 hour train trip was in terms of accommodations, etc. Also what time did you leave the ship and what time at night did you return? Were both legs of the trip on the high speed rail (I read that slower trains also travel the same tracks)?   My wife and I are considering this excursion. We thought that if we are making all the effort to go to Russia then how could we pass up going to Moscow, walking in Red Square, seeing St. Basil, etc.

I did this on Seabourn. IMO DONT. Take Aeroflop (er Aeroflot). The train has non folding seats where you are literally knee to knee with your fellow passenger (facing each other). Further they don't believe in air conditioning. It's also the worlds slowed bullet train. I think I would have found more enjoyment wandering around the St. Petersburg and Moscow airports.

Countflorida,

This is a little off topic,, however we had planned a river cruise in Russia but decided we would rather stay on land and have booked about two weeks with Travel-All-Russia using the private guide and driver. I'm curious as to how you found them as a tour company.

The guides they provided were fine. We had a different guide each of the days in St. Petersburg, but both were flexible, pleasant, knowledgeable and spoke English very well, as did the guide in Moscow, incidentally. She was a bit aloof, distant, not too friendly, but otherwise fine. In fact, she was the one who suggested taking the Metro, which unexpectedly became one of the highlights of the Moscow excursion. If I have a complaint with AllTravelRussia, it is with their plan and its execution (more later).

I had requested emphasis on World War II (in Russia, the Great Patriotic War) sites and info. In scheduling us, they weren't careful about dates and a couple of the sites we wanted to see were scheduled on the third day, after we'd been to Moscow. But both sites were closed that day of the week, and that info was readily available, right on web sites describing them. Also, the included meals (lunches in St. Pete, dinner in Moscow) were not what we asked for: light meals with some choices, so we could avoid things we didn't like and choose things we did like. My request was ignored; we were given full Russian meals with a fixed menu, no choice. On the first day, a fish dish was the entre, but I am allergic to fish. Fortunately, I had the e-mail I'd sent with me and showed it to the guide, and she was able to change my entre to chicken, which was very good actually. But we didn't want a 3-4 course lunches or dinner (in Moscow). We had the guide drop the lunch the third day, although we never got any credit or refund. But, particularly in contrast to the ship's tours, the prices were so reasonable we didn't worry too much about it.

The people who were on the ship's tour to Moscow saw us boarding the same train for which they were forced to queue up and wait on the way back, and asked us what we had done. I was candid and open so they were not happy when I explained what we had arranged and particularly what it had cost. Also, when we returned to the ship, we found they had laid on a late supper for those who had gone to Moscow, so up we went and had something. Well, it turns out the late supper was supposed to be just for those on the ship's tour, but we and others on 'independent' tours, there were a dozen or more of us, crashed the party, actually got there first, and they didn't realize it until the larger group arrived and there weren't enough tables/places set. By that time, the 'independents' had all gotten served and were eating; what could they do?

A couple from the larger group sat down with us and asked us about our tour, and they were the ones I told about our arrangement and its cost. They turned to others who’d been with them and announced the details, loudly enough so the whole room heard, which started a lot of bitching and complaining. I gathered they weren't very happy with the ship's tour to begin with, and this was the straw that broke the camel's back. We finished up and beat it out of there, but overheard later that one of the excursion staff came to check on something and ran into a real mess. I caught a cold on the trip, which forced me to bed the second day following in Tallinn, so by the time we reappeared we heard about the contretemps' but apparently no one recalled who started it, thankfully.

Because of what happened to us, I would probably not use AllTravelRussia if I were to go again, or if I did, I would be sure to get confirmation of every detail of the tour. They do have good reviews generally, and we were certainly helped by their visa department and liked the guides and drivers. Their weakness, I say now with full 20:20 hindsight, is that once the sales person who plans the tour, sells it to you and collects your money, he (or she) transfers the plan to their Russia office for implementation; there is no follow-up to make sure it gets done right. And that is where our problems arose; we paid for a custom tour but got a standard package with a few destinations switched, and no one checked them out, even to see when they were open the day we were scheduled to go. If you check every detail that’s important to you, it should be OK, but that’s a hell of a way to have to do business, in my opinion.

Thank you for the 20/20 hindsight observation on your Russian tour operator, and better priced than the ship's excursion cost.

Thanks very much for the feedback.

We had the same experience as you so far as price. We originally booked a Viking Cruise but, hearing some things about the river cruises that made us unhappy, looked into other options. T-A-R cost the same or less than a cruise and had us in hotels for 11 days. We opted for the private tour. They have three tour levels, based on hotels. We originally opted for the four star as it did not cost much more than the three star hotels. Finally we decided to throw it all in and upgraded to five star. In Moscow we will be at the newly opened Kempinsky which is two blocks from Red Square. In St. Petersburg it is the Grand Hotel Europe, one of the most vaunted luxury hotels in Russia. Location is important for us as the tours use up only part of the day so being in the center of everything for our independent touring is important. As with many other cities, the less you pay, the farther out of the center of town you are.

We have been working with our salesman in D.C. and he seems to get back to us with the changes we want. He recently returned from Russia so is up on everything. When I asked they said they paid the full TA commission if I wanted so I got my usual TA on board so he is watching our back and giving us that extra level of comfort. He also set up our air, which I know pays him little or nothing, and got us business class for much less than T-A-R wanted for economy, though it took working for a while with a consolidator. He's happy to get his 10 percent on this trip without having booked it. He also took care of the trip insurance. We've been doing a lot of research on the CC sister site Trip Advisor and will write a report there. We will, I guess, become a source of info for CC members after having spent 5 days in Moscow and 6 in SP.

• 4 months later...

scubacruiserx2

Anybody considering a day trip to Moscow from St. Petersburg on the Sapsan may want to look at our travelogue filled with pictures.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1927687

Very informative. Thanks dor sharing. Jeff

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